TerraHertz — NobLog — Drama collecting a UPS

Drama collecting a UPS

(No wonder they went broke)

20180317 TerraHertz http://everist.org NobLog home Updated 20180322

Back in October 2017 I'd gone down to Lavington in Albury to inspect some CNC lathes coming up for auction. I ended up not getting one of those lathes, since they were unsuitable, plus the total cost of ownership was way too high for me.

While there I'd seen a decent-sized three-phase UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) in the server room. It was partly dismantled, since someone had removed most of the lead acid batteries in a haphazard and negligent manner. Scattering the cabinet door, battery shelves and cabling segments about the room. So the auction photo made it look like a ruin.

Image from Pickles auction listing.

The UPS system consists of the two tall cabinets side by side, the transfer switch on the wall, and whatever remnants of the battery wiring can be found lying around the room.
Other system parts are the two cabinet doors leaning on the wall to the right, and one of the several missing shelves leaning against the wall on the left. The open door on the left leads into the network server room. This UPS once maintained power to those servers. It's all shut down, from some master breaker in the central distribution switchroom.

On opening the UPS electronics cabinet, I found the internals appeared to be intact. Hmmm... I've been looking for a 3-phase 415V UPS, for use in conjunction with what I consider my primary retirement project. Quite important to me. This one would possibly do, though given its careless decommissioning who knows if it's operable, whether all the bits are really there, and so on. Anyway I made a note of the lot number. I wasn't enthusiastic enough to bother taking photos.

For the actual auction, Pickles' bidding system is a lot more involved than ebay. There are several steps required to make a bid, and you must have a bank account linked and with sufficient funds to cover the entire purchase price plus any extras. So before the CNC lathes came up, I wanted to make at least one bid on something. The UPS provided a good test case. Needing to hoard as much of my limited funds as possible for a lathe (either a CNC from this auction, or something more suitable elsewhere) I put a very low bid of $11 on the UPS. Like I said, there's no way to tell what condition it's in. Also my need is not urgent, and I'm pretty sure eventually I'd find a suitable one in Sydney. For cheap or free.

For whatever reason, no one else bid on the UPS. I'd say because others felt the same way I did about its poor visible condition, the trouble of transporting something not known to work, plus effort and expense needed to restore it. Also it was an item buried in a very long boring list of trivia, such as 194 individually listed "Tipping Swarf Bin Trollies" (big, rusty metal chip bins) then several more pages of miscellania from the offices.

Consequently I won it for $1. This made me quite happy.

Some background: I've been looking for a large 3-phase 415V UPS for around 8 years. It has to be extremely cheap or preferably free, due to my near zero income. (That's a long story; some other time.) Twice in those years I've just missed out on one. I'm mentioning this to make it clear this UPS purchase wasn't some momentary whim. It's part of a long term plan. One that seems to benefit from remarkable strokes of luck surprisingly often. If this UPS does end up in my hands, the $1 price will count as another. That I have to fight for it doesn't change that.

Before I show you the UPS listing details, lets have a look at a listing typical for things like the CNC lathes.

One of those, Lot 152, I was planning to bid on, and did. I bid $1,350, highest bid was $3,050 — which failed to meet reserve and was passed in. I'd spent some time in Albury before the inspection, inquiring about transport costs to Sydney, and of course was fully aware of the auction listing notes specifying the $2200 decommissioning and removal fee, appointment required to load the machine to transport, etc. Clearly meaning the buyer would not have access to the factory floor to retrieve their machine themselves. Which is understandable, given the great number of very heavy and large machines, needing heavy special purpose machinery to move them, logistics of removal sequencing, and so on.
Notice those caveats are repeated in the lists on every single item (hundreds) to which they apply. They were present on the online item listings too.

Now here's the listing for the UPS, Lot 9074:

I've shown the whole page for context. It's page 27 of 31 pages for this 'sale 12' stage of the auction. Points:

Note the wide assortment of low value items. Desks, pictures, pot plants, etc. This demonstrates the owner's own low valuation of the UPS and server racks. They can't afterwards complain "oh we were too busy to notice what we were doing!" That's their problem.
The network server racks and contents (5 of them, Lot 9073) are listed just prior to the UPS. So it's not like one tiny item slipped their attention. It's two whole rooms of stuff, a lot of gear, all bulky things. They put five whole man-high server racks and all their contents up as one auction item!
All of these items are stated to be in the front office, upstairs and downstairs. This is a front extension adjoining the main factory, with very little interconnection. It's a different environment from the factory. Office worker territory, safety clothing not required.
The UPS has the extra note "batteries removed". Which shows that they did give its listing some special attention. If they could note that detail, why not any other details special to this item?
None of these items have any caveats (extra fees, special requirements) in the listings, other than that GST is included in the sale price.
This is very important. It's not legal to make up other requirements and costs after an auction ends, and try to force the winning bidder to comply.
With the way all these items are listed, it's a completely fair assumption that the owners just wanted to empty out the offices area with minimal effort from them.
There are no restrictions on removal, nothing. It's very clear that people would be expected to come to the site, enter the offices, and remove the items they won, on their own. Benson Machines isn't going to help people move tables and chairs. Or server racks. Or a UPS.
In the entire online auction, everything started at $1. Everything, even huge lathes. There were no reserve prices mentioned, though it turned out that on major items like the CNC lathes there were reserve prices. But for items in this listing of office contents, there were no reserve prices.
Theoretically, by regulation permanently wired electrical installations are not permitted to use '2nd hand' components. This UPS is a wired installation, and it arguably should never be commercially reused. That's OK for me, as I intend to substantially modify it, for a somewhat different and experimental laboratory, non-commercial application. But it is a severe limitation on the realistic commercial value.
An auction, especially a very widely subscribed huge auction like this, is a fair determinant of true market price. All the large desirable machine tools were bid up to thousands of dollars. Small items in the metrology auction went for very good prices. This UPS sold for $1, one bid. That's actually a valid price, considering its drawbacks, damaged state, limited applicability, and the legal reuse restrictions. For most potential buyers it's not worth its weight as scrap, due to the transport distance issues.

Removal Logistics

Now, I'd stood next to the UPS on the inspection day. It's in a small room off the main corridor of the offices downstairs area. Maybe 15 meters from a set of main doors at the end of the corridor, opening to ground level outside. That has direct vehicle access to just outside the doors. There's a flight of stairs up to the factory floor, but those are irrelevant. Don't need to take the UPS out via the stairs.

I'd considered the disconnection and removal requirements, or I wouldn't have bid at all. The electronics cabinet is mostly empty space. I knew it could not weigh more than a few hundred kilos. Easily able to be jacked up onto a small dolley, wheeled down the corridoor, then ramped/winched onto a trailer. The battery cabinet is effectively empty, and will be moveable with a simple trolley. Having just recently moved a vastly heavier lathe around, I knew I could safely move this UPS completely by myself.

As for the electrics there is a bundle of cables visible on the wall. Bearing in mind this UPS runs the network servers in the adjoining room, there will be one main supply cable (coming from a circuit breaker in the main distribution switch room), and several output cables going to power outlets in the next room. The bypass switch allows the UPS to be cut out of the loop, with power running direct from the supply cable, to the several outlets next door.

It's all powered down. The main supply breaker elsewhere is turned off. All that's required to actually disconnect this UPS, is to identify the master breaker (which Benson staff will certainly know the exact location of) and ensure it's tagged 'do not operate' and locked in the off position. The main supply cable can then be disconnected at the UPS and made safe (wire ends taped securely, and cable marked with the supply breaker number.) It's likely the factory building will be demolished, so this is all 'final acts' stuff anyway.

Next point to note is that the entire factory has been maintained for years by Benson Machines staff. Some were present during the auction inspection days, and I spoke with them. They know the place like the back of their hands. There's only one networking server room, and one UPS for that. They will know exactly where the master breaker for this UPS is. They would absolutely have already tagged it 'do not operate' and locked it out before they removed the lead acid batteries from the UPS. This would be totally essential for their own safety, since the battery chain runs to several hundred volts DC, and is charged via UPS cabinet electronics from the mains supply. The battery chain is very lethal, which is why it's been removed.

So really, there is absolutely nothing Benson Machines needs to actually do, before allowing me to remove my property. All I require, is a personal eyes-on of the master breaker, to ensure it's locked out and some joker can't turn it on while I'm disconnecting the supply cable at the bypass switch on the wall next to the UPS. In fact I don't even really need that, since by safe work principles I'd still perform the disconnect as if the circuit was live. Isolated tools, disconnect and insulate one lead at a time, and so on.

Alternatively, if Benson Machines prefers, they could simply cut the single supply cable in the UPS room themselves. Anywhere visible, between the UPS ancillary switch cabinets, and where the cable enters the room from the cabling ducts. This would literally take them a few moments. In the main distribution room, verify the UPS supply breaker is off and locked out. Walk to the UPS room, double check the supply cable has no power, cut the cable. If they wish, tape the end. Done. The entire UPS system is no longer a 'wired installation', and can be removed by anyone.
In this manner they fully conform to their own auction sale terms, ie no restrictions on the UPS removal, and have satisfied their safety responsibilities.

Owning it

Winning an auction is one thing, but then you have to pay for the item before you legally own it.
With these Pickles auctions the payment is automatically deducted from the bank account you must specify, as a requirement for opening a bidding account with Pickles. However this process with Pickles is rather teasing. It takes a while before you know for sure you now own the item.

The following is tedious for anyone but me (the auction winner.) I'm only detailing it because as you'll see, whether the UPS is legally mine later becomes an issue.
Click on thumbnails for larger size docs. Times are when I saved the original file.
I've removed my address and contact details from all of the following, because I'll be putting this online.
Contact details of representatives of Pickles and Benson Machines are left in, as they are commercial-public.

201710111 (11th Oct 2017), early in the day.
I phoned Pickles before setting up my bidding account, to ask these questions about the necessary deposit and payment deadlines (for the CNC lathes.)
Mentioned to show I was doing whatever pre-auction diligence seemed necessary.

1:59pm
How the UPS auction item web page looks after I bid, and the auction reached the finish time. For the next few minutes, someone else may still outbid me. So it's 'Pending'.

2:50pm
Notification via email that Pickles knows I bid on the item.

3pm
A few minutes after that, my bids status page says I won it. No one else bid. But it's still not final, since I haven't been charged the sale price yet.

3:15pm
The item page, telling me I've definitely won the item.

3:20pm
Having a look at my bank account. So far it only shows the token $1 charge Pickles initially makes to verify your account details are valid, when you sign up. They later reverse this charge.

5:50pm
An html email from Pickles with an attached PDF of an invoice for my purchase.

The invoice with the above email. I owe them $1.14 ($1 bid plus their processing fee.)

5:51pm
Shortly after, they've successfully debited my account, now sending a tax invoice as attached PDF stating the outstanding amount I owe them is zero.

The tax invoice, stating I owe $0.
I now own the UPS outright.

Another tax invoice a while later, for a different small item I also won for $1. A vibrating test tube stirrer. I was browsing through the other auctions and thought it was interesting. Had seen one of these in use during my recent trip to Melbourne.

6pm
My online bank statement now showing all three charges from Pickles. Two won items plus the original token $1 debit.

Checking much later, the $1 test debit has been reversed. I'd put $1200 into the account, to cover potentially winning a CNC lathe bid. On winning, Pickles immediately take a percentage deposit from your account. A percentage of the bid plus Benson's $2200 'removal fee'. The full amount has to be paid within 24 hours.

Excellent. As of Oct 11th 2017 I own a 30KVA UPS. (30KVA is the total stored power, if it had batteries and they were fully charged.)
At that point I didn't know if I'd win a CNC lathe or not (but expected probably not.) Some logistics problems — how would the UPS fit in with getting a CNC up to Sydney? Alternatively if no CNC lathe, I'd be going down to Albury myself, with car and trailer to pick up just the UPS. But the problem with that is my car is currently out of rego, while I'm working on the suspension. I expected to be able to re-register it soon, once the suspension issues were fixed. I also have a trailer that I very rarely use, so had let rego on that lapse as well. So I thought it might be a few more weeks before I could get down to Albury.

During my visit to the factory for inspection, I'd spoken with people who'd be involved in shipping the sold machinery. They'd said it was expected to take them well into the next year (2018) to get all of it done.

The auction details for the smaller items such as office furnishings (including the UPS) had specified pickup must occur from Oct 17th to 25th. I wasn't going to make that.

The listing didn't state anything about needing to make an appointment to pick up the UPS, and therefore I should really be able to just turn up and fetch it out. But I thought seeing as I was going to be late, I'd be polite and check with them that being late would be OK, and let them know the UPS definitely would be picked up. As opposed to the bid being from some joker who would just abandon it.

Since it's sitting out of the way, in a room all by itself, effectively in a basement (though it's actually ground level there) and I wouldn't need any assistance from Benson Machines, I expected there wouldn't be a problem with any delay. This was correct; Benson raised no objections to leaving the UPS in place until pickup could be arranged, sometime during their heavy equipment shipping phase.

First Phone Inquiries

Usually online auctions are simple. There's a seller, and a body providing the online auction service. Ebay for instance. Pickles' auctions are similar. But this time it's apparently a bit more complicated. The auction series is titled:

Major Event Gearbox Manufacturing Plant Closure Auctions
TIGER ASSET GROUP in Conjunction with Benson Machines under Instructions from DriveTrain Systems International
Via Pickles Auctions

My first contact was with Pickles. I had a talking points text file with some questions to ask.
Called Pickles on Friday 13th Oct 11:30am, asked only the important questions. Noted answers in that file.
Key points:

From the listings: Details of sale: Dates for collections are: Between Tuesday, 17 October to Wednesday, 25 October 2017 for smaller assets (excluding weekends) (My emphasis in bold.)

Called 9738 3010, asked for Luke McCann.
Told he's not available. Asked questions of lady who answered. Told:

Ignore that "3 working days to remove". (It's a standard form, doesn't apply to the Lavington auction.)
All items have reserve prices, unless otherwise stated.
Contact at Albury re pickup of the UPS: 0414 262 728 Paul.
Person to speak with about second auction: 0499 993 285 Lee.

With my car issues, and a hectic week buying and urgently moving that large Macson lathe in Sydney, I wasn't going to make the Albury 'smaller assets' pickup deadline. The UPS obviously isn't a 'smaller asset', but I should make sure there's an understanding with Benson re when pickup can happen.

Forgetting to allow for Greed

I opened discussion with the person listed as responsible for scheduling of machinery pickups; a Mr Paul Philips, of Benson Machines. Here's how that went.

20171020 Friday 3:40pm. I called Paul (0414262728), got a voice bank, left a message re the UPS and my phone number.

At 5pm he phoned back. My note made at the time:

Brief discussion of the UPS pickup time matter and CNC lathe.
Says the UPS can be left a bit longer. Has to be disconnected, etc.
Asked me to SMS him my contact details.
He says the ratio of passed in was around 50/50.
Might be able to still get a spaceturn.

I also recall he'd commented in passing that he/Benson were sad they had neglected to put a reserve price on the UPS. "Big rush, etc." I let that pass without comment and also didn't discuss or think anything of his mention of having to disconnect the UPS. Assuming that wasn't my problem, and anyway how hard was it to isolate and cut the cable? I felt the issue was trivial, and so didn't even make a note of it.
In response I SMS'd him:

Hi Paul. Re the UPS Lot 9074. mo: 0423 XXX XXX. ph: 02 XXXX XXXX em: xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

He SMS'd back:

Hi there, collections of small items are on now 8am-4pm Mon Fri.
Machines from Mon 30/10. Call Chriss Lloyd on 0414 97 37 97 or email info@bensonmachines.com
Best regards, Paul
Also please email your best offer for an Okuma Spaceturn, I'll see if we can meet it.
We need to act quickly if you want a lathe.

I replied via SMS:

Thanks. Will shift to email. Phone txt is a pain.

The rest are email.

On 27 Oct 2017, at 5:23 pm, Guy Dunphy wrote:

Hello Paul,

Please accept my apologies for not yet being able to come down to Albury to pick up the large UPS, lot #9074.
I did drive down to the Monday inspection, but for the UPS pickup I've had a number of obstacles, including a car mechanical problem, illness (bad cold and bacterial infection that required antibiotics), and other urgent time demands.

I'd spoken with Paul about whether it was OK to leave the UPS for a while longer than the published deadline of the 27th. It is large, and out of the way in the basement, so considering the months it will take to work through the many large machines on the factory floor, I hope some delay won't be a problem.

Both the illness and 'urgent chore' are done with now, so getting my Subaru and trailer capable of the trip is now top of the list. Incidentally the story of the urgent chore is written up online here:
http://everist.org/NobLog/20171004_buying_lathe.htm

You may find that story amusing and relevant, though it's long. To save your time, just scroll down till you see a photo of the Okuma Spaceturn LB250T, one of the machines I came down to inspect before the auction. Summary: right after being outbid on a Spaceturn machine, I did find a large old lathe that could do the simple machining task I need. But the logistics of moving it basically took all last week and most of this week.

Regarding the UPS. Paul mentioned he felt Benson would have to disconnect it. Ie take some of their time. This is not necessary. I'm a retired electronics design engineer, and though I do not have an electrician's licence I have plenty of working experience with power systems, including a year spent as electrician on two Navy ship refurbishment projects (Tobruk and Manoora) done by Forgacs, at Garden Island. I worked under a licenced electrician supervisor (John Martin) who made a point of commenting at the end of the contract that he'd never seen anyone who worked as capably as I.

Anyway, for removing the UPS all I'll need is to be shown the supply lockout provisions. I will handle all disconnection of the UPS itself, and making safe of building wiring left after the UPS is removed. You're welcome to inspect after I'm done, to verify safety.

I also can move the cabinets myself, so long as I can get vehicle access to an outside door on the same level as the basement. I have the PDF manual for the UPS, and gear to lift it onto a dolly, wheel it outside, etc.
If there is a printed manual for the UPS in the manuals store, I'd appreciate receiving that.

Questions I have:

In the auction photo, there is a UPS isolation switch panel on the wall next to the UPS. Is this included? (I hope so. It's no use without the UPS, and is more or less required for the UPS.)
During the pre-auction inspection, I never saw the factory control room, that presumably exists somewhere. In that control room, is there a status/control panel for the UPS? Or was it just handled via a link to a PC? If there's a custom control panel for the UPS, can I have it with the UPS?
The UPS batteries are removed. Understandable, considering the safety hazard they represent while wired in series, and also that after nearly 4 years unpowered they are probably all flat and ruined by sulfation. But, were they actually discarded? Or stored somewhere? If the latter may I check them to see if worth retaining for the UPS?

Incidentally I also won one other very small item. Sale 7, Lot 5354, Test tube agitator. If someone could take that downstairs and put it with the UPS, I'd appreciate it.

About the Okuma Spaceturn. Much as I'd _love_ to have one (see my writeup), it's probably not feasible even if there are any left by now. The main problem is funds. Also workshop space, now I have an old lathe sitting in the space where a Spaceturn could have gone. But, if there are some still unsold, please let me know. I'll consider what I could do to get one and fit it in somewhere.
I don't suppose Benson's $2200 removal fee is negotiable?

It was very surprising that some (or all?) of those passed in. Setting reserve prices on such a huge auction seems unwise, since it was sure to overwhelm the market. Plus, very old & worn CNC machines, and all the other issues I discovered and wrote about.
Who set the reserves? Pickles, Benson, or ASI's receivers?

By the way I also bid on Sale 6 Lot 605, 'Assembly machine in cubicle.' Which also passed in.
I was interested in getting something else with entertainment value, since I have to come to Albury for the UPS anyway. The idea was to disassemble on site, fitting the parts in trailer and car, leaving only the heavy welded steel frame to be scrapped.
Did that sell yet?

Best regards,
Guy Dunphy

From: Paul Philips
Subject: Re: Attn Paul - re Albury UPS Lot 9074 pickup
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:25:57 +1100
Cc: Chris Lloyd
To: Guy Dunphy

Hello Guy,

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. As you can imagine, we are extremely busy.
Regarding your question about removal of the UPS Lot 9074; We are unable to grant you access for disconnection unless you are a currently licensed Electrician with suitable qualifications and have a current Workers Compensation Insurance.
Assuming that you are not able to meet the above requirements, we have checked and advise;

To trace, disconnect, tag and load 9074 onto your transport, the cost would be $965.25 which includes GST.

We would need payment prior to commencing the work.
Please advise if you wish to proceed.

Best regards,
Paul Philips

Benson Machines
118 Carnarvon Street
Silverwater, NSW 2128

Tel 02 9737 9727
Fax 02 9737 9707
Mob 0414 26 27 28
Skype: paulatbenson

Freephone 1 800 68 78 98
http://www.bensonmachines.com

ABN 17 088 259 910

Good grief. In retrospect it's clear that now he knows I'm not going to buy an Okuma spaceturn CNC lathe, and he's decided on what he thinks is a 'fair price' for the UPS (around $950, the actual cost to Benson to disconnect it is near zero) he's going to say whatever he likes, to extract that payment from me.

At that point I wasn't aware of how casually he'd lie and make up stuff to support his extortion. So I still tried to be reasonable and polite.

To: Paul Philips <paulp@bensonmachines.com>
From: Guy Dunphy
Subject: Re: Attn Paul - re Albury UPS Lot 9074 pickup

Hello Paul,

At 12:25 PM 2/11/2017 +1100, you wrote:
>Hello Guy,

>Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. As you can imagine, we are extremely busy.

I appreciate your reply, and don't want to take your time for what should be a simple matter.

>Regarding your question about removal of the UPS Lot 9074; We are unable to grant you access for disconnection unless you are a currently licensed Electrician with suitable qualifications and have a current Workers Compensation Insurance.
>Assuming that you are not able to meet the above requirements, we have checked and advise;
>To trace, disconnect, tag and load 9074 onto your transport, the cost would be $965.25 which includes GST.
>We would need payment prior to commencing the work.
>Please advise if you wish to proceed.

Needless to say, I don't find that very amusing. It was fortunate that I wasn't able to arrive there earlier, only to discover that little problem after driving 600Km.
Also having stood next to the UPS on inspection day and knowing perfectly well what's involved in removing it, I find your cost estimate unreasonable and not a path I wish to take.

Could you confirm, someone WITH a current electrician's licence and workers comp. insurance, would have access to the UPS to remove it from the building, without Benson's assistance and thus at no cost?

I'll remind you that the auction listing made no note of any charges beyond the Pickles percentage. There was no 'removal fee' or mention of requiremment for removal by Benson Machines, where these _were_ specifically listed for the large machine tool lots.
No mention of qualifications or insurance requirements for that matter.
It may be that you wish in hindsight you had placed such provisions, but the fact remains there were no such conditions of sale.

Please don't think that because I won it for $1 with no other bids, that I take this lightly.
I have a strong need for a large UPS, and wish to work out a way to obtain this one, that I legally won and have paid for, with minimum dispute.

I'll be looking into my rights here, as well as seeing about obtaining assistance to meet your requirements, if that does actually turn out to be unavoidable.

Best regards,
Guy Dunphy

Subject: Re: Attn Paul - re Albury UPS Lot 9074 pickup
From: Paul Philips <paulp@bensonmachines.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 17:53:01 +1100
To: Guy Dunphy

Hello Guy,

I believe that you may have misunderstood our motive; to provide a safe workplace and to comply with government legislation. If we do not comply, not only are we breaking the law, but our insurances become null and void. We are not permitted to have un-insured people on-site. (We had special dispensation on the two open-days).

If you have your own person who can meet these requirements, we will permit him/her access for disconnection.

You will also need two people for about 30 minutes to convey the items up to a loading point. These people will also need to show evidence that they have a current Workers Comp in place.

We are not trying to be difficult, just compliant in this litigious era. Regarding the notification of the above requirements; I can only apologise that this was not done (to the best of my knowledge) in advance of the sale. It was an oversight, with so much equipment to list.

If you pursue your “rights” and force us to provide these services at our cost, we will be paying you to take this equipment away. I’m sure that you would agree that would not be equitable.

Please let me know how we should proceed.

Best regards,
Paul

20171103
To: Paul Philips
From: Guy Dunphy
Subject: Re: Attn Paul - re Albury UPS Lot 9074 pickup
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments: 20171006_Lavington_auction\site_maps\bing_view_access.jpg;

Hello Paul,

Re the UPS Lot 9074, in point form for brevity:

I understand your requirements, and that the absurdity is not Benson's fault but rather the Australian legal environment.
I'm very dismayed to encounter these obstacles, but wish to proceed without animosity.
The equipment has been paid for, and is legally my property. (The low sale price is irrelevant, and is also likely a fair reflection of the equipment commercial value, given all the factors. This is the nature of auctions.)
I do strongly wish to obtain it. (With any manuals, removed cabinet panels lying loose in the room, and the adjacent isolator switch panel which is part of the UPS system. It's in the auction photo. There were many instances of ancillary equipment pieces not being stickered with the Lot numbers, and I hope you agree this is another case. That panel is no use without the UPS.)
The fees you quoted are not within the realm of the practical for me, or economical for the nature of the equipment.
Therefore the equipment removal must be done without Benson's assistance.
The equipment is powered-down, decomissioned, batteries removed, and easily determined to be electrically locked out of service.
So I dispute your requirement for a licenced electrician to disconnect it. However I'm also aware Benson will likely not budge on this, so for the sake of progress I'll go along with that (under protest.)
Incidentally the equipment will not be recommissioned as-is, but will be the basis of a modification & research project involving other battery types and cofigurations. It is technically not functional electrical equipment being resold for use.
Of the two people required to do the removal, one of them MUST be me, since I do not trust anyone else to do a thorough and safe job of retrieving the UPS and associated parts. (Eg the battery shelves, which are scattered around the room.)
This means I have to obtain personal 'workers comp insurance' for that day myself. AS well as hire an electrician. Is there any specific class or variety of insurance coverage that you insist on? Consider that I am a private, retired individual, not employed by anyone to do this work.
What EXACT minimal personal coverage do you require, to comply with your legal needs?
I will be providing all lifting & moving gear, tools, etc.
Timeframe. I think we've established that an attempt to simply collect the UPS during the initial auction 'small items' pickup period ending on 27th October would have failed, on unhappy discovery of the unadvertised legal requirements.
Now we are in the heavy equipmnt pickup period, which extends well into next year.
The UPS is sitting out of everyone's way, in a room by itself in the basement.
It's going to take me a while to research and organise means to comply with Benson's legal requirements.
QUESTION re timeframe:
I'd like to have an assurance from you (or Benson, or whoever is ultimately in charge of equipment pickup) that pickup can be arranged sometime in the major equipment removal interval (coming several months), and that there won't be any 'storage fees' or other such unexpected issues.
I'm happy to fit into Benson's work queue, though bearing in mind there will be very little attention needed from Benson once I have the details on my side worked out.
ACCESS
I'm certain there is no need to raise the UPS up to the factory floor level. Recall that I was there.
The 'basement' is actually at outside ground level at that southern end of the building, and there are doors to outside. The equipment is two standard size, independent 19" rack modules, so fits through a normal door. There is vehicle access to that outside area, and no need for a crane hoist.
However, having two people (myself and an electrician I employ for an hour) would make the moving easier than by myself.
QUESTION re access:
Can I have vehicle access to the relevant ground level outside door of the 'basement' in that area?
It can be reached via the main truck bay eastern door, or gates in the fence off the main drive entrance.
See attached aerial photo showing vehicle access. URL for Bing maps view: https://binged.it/2z8df8U

So, does that cover everything, to your satisfaction?
Are you happy to let this sit at "I will notify you when I am ready, and would then like a date for pickup that suits Benson"? I am happy to leave it till some interval when you/Benson are not so busy. Or can I just inform you of a date, given that Benson won't need to do anything besides allow vehicle access and unlock a door?
I expect I'll need a date in advance, to arrange my personal insurance cover for site access. I'm certainly not going to pay for a whole year or whatever. (Of something for which I have zero actual need.)
UNRELATED MATTERS
I'm still somewhat interested in Lot 605 (Assembly machine in cubicle. Sale 6, page 4) which I bid on but was passed in.
Since I'll be onsite with an electrician and insurance cover, let me know if it didn't sell and you're interested in discussing a realistic price.
What happened with the five network services racks, that were in the room next to the UPS? (Lot 9073, Sale 12, page 27) Did they sell, and did the buyer encounter this same kind of difficulty in retrieving them? Sole difference being they are only plugged into mains outlets, rather than directly wired. Run from the UPS incidentally.
They are about the same size, though probably heavier.
I was interested in those too, but didn't bid due to the transport cost for 5 racks, which made them uneconomical for me.
I could do with a couple more racks, but don't have space for 5. Didn't examine the contained equipment when I was there.
Final question: Did all the Okuma Spaceturn LB250T CNC lathes sell yet? Lots 149 through 153. Not just idle curiosity, though at present financing a purchase would be a difficulty. I have solved my immediate machining need, but am still interested in obtaining a CNC machine at low cost.
Regards,
Guy Dunphy

I received no reply to the above, nor anything further till the time of writing this history (March 2018.)
Given that I'd requested he state if he had any objections to the UPS being left in place until I could pick it up, his non-reply is legally an acceptance of my proposal.
Which is reasonable; it's a large item, out of their way, they are busy now, and it's best left till they are not so busy.
Also realistically, it's clear that the last thing he wants is for me to pick up the UPS. Certainly not until I pay the extortionate extra amount anyway. Presumably he wishes I would give up, and release the UPS to him so he can resell it.

It's notable that at no point did Paul Philips answer any of my questions, or provide any helpful information at all. Very clearly his sole objective was to obstruct my picking up the item I'd won, by placing impossible conditions on its pickup.

I recall I had also had one more phone conversation with him, at some point in that correspondence series. He'd reitterated all his demands listed in his emails. He'd also talked about how 'at least two or three people and lifting equipment would be required, for getting the UPS up the stairs to the factory floor level for loading.' (Words to that effect.) I don't think at that point he was aware I'd actually seen the UPS's location. Whether he has ever been to the Albury factory himself I don't know. So maybe he's just misinformed about the location and access. Or, if he has seen it, then he was lying in the expectation I would not know any better. It doesn't need to go up any stairs. Unfortunately I did not makes notes or record that conversation.

Extortion vs My Position

In my email I'd suggested I was looking into complying with his unreasonable and impractical demands.
However I now reject them absolutely, as deliberate obstructive lies, intended to serve as extortion or impossible obstacles.

Here is my position:

The UPS is legally my property. It doesn't make any difference how much or little I paid for it. Benson have at no time disputed this. They merely laugh dismissively due to the $1 sale price, as if that makes the issue open to whatever extortion they wish to apply.
The UPS is not situated within the factory area, but rather in an ordinary, ground level office area. With very easy and direct external access, no stairs involved, no passing through the factory spaces. Their own floor plan shows this. Whatever demands Benson make on the basis of the UPS being 'in a factory', difficulty of access, need for workers factory comp insurance, etc, are baseless.
I'm not 'employed' by anyone, and the area is not a factory space. The demand for 'workers comp insurance' is specious, and purely an obstructive measure. I'm happy to sign a liability waiver, if that makes them feel better.
Their demand the UPS be removed only by someone with an electrician's licence is also rubbish, since as evidenced by the partly dismantled state of the unit (see auction photo), they must have already securely isolated it. Also I checked while there; there is no power to it. If they didn't isolate it, then they are commiting a severe safety breach themselves.
In claiming they 'need to trace wiring' (see below) in order to ensure lock-out electrical safety, they are flatly lying. They would have originally known the full wiring details, and already securely isolated the UPS in order to perform the dangerous high voltage battery series removal. This is just more attempts to justify their extortion and obstruction.
The (lack of) conditions on the auction listing are binding on the seller. They cannot make up more demands and charges after the auction.
To make such demands is effectively extortion. The $965.25 they demand to release the UPS is not acceptable, nor is any extra fee. It is demanding money with menaces. ("Pay up or you don't get your UPS, that you own. And we will resell it (conversion) or destroy it.")
They cannot add any kind of requirements not mentioned in the auction listing. If they find after the auction that they forgot to mention some requirement they are subject to, then it is on them to make good that requirement. At no extra cost to the buyer.
If they honestly think it's necessary for an electrician to (re)do the isolation, they are obliged to provide that assistance. Note that in the months since the auction they have been busily shipping out literally hundreds of large machines in the factory, all of which had to be electrically isolated and made ready for shipment. They must have at least one electrician on site while they work. He could easily do the few moment's action of verifying the UPS master supply breaker is still locked in the off position. At literally no extra cost to them.
If they wish, they can also chop the supply cable at entry point to the UPS room, thus making the entire UPS system no longer a 'wired installation.' At that point it's just office furniture.
But if it comes to that, they likely won't bother. They know it's already isolated. Their claim of hundreds of dollars worth of work required is rubbish; just an excuse to obstruct release of the UPS.
They are unhappy the UPS sold for $1. But that is just too bad, boo hoo. They failed to place any auction reserve on it, and listed it in amongst near worthless junk. And it is near worthless junk in its current condition, regardless of how their precious feelings may be hurt by the $1 sale price.
They cannot resell it (not their property), or damage it (destruction of other's property.)
The UPS system includes the two UPS racks, all the shelf trays removed from the UPS battery rack and left about the room, all the removed battery cabling left lying about in the room, the front and back doors from the battery rack, the isolation switch cabinet(s) on the wall beside the UPS racks (as shown in the auction listing), and wiring between the UPS racks and the isolation switch. There were countless instances of ancilliary equipment not tagged with the auction lot numbers, seen during the inspection period and verified with Benson staff to have been due to their rush, and just omitting to put extra lot number stickers on things. The UPS isolation switch is another example. The Pickles photo angle demonstrates the switch cabinet is meant to be included. Otherwise a more direct view of the UPS rack front would have been shown.
There's also a 'cable cover' on the floor behind the UPS racks, protecting cables from being walked on. I don't care about that. Can take it or leave it.
They have at multiple points in the discussion accepted that the UPS system does not incurr 'storage fees' of any kind, for being left in its room. In any case, since they are the ones obstructing its removal, and have been since the beginning, charging such fees would be more extorion. They have never requested I hurry up and take it, despite opportunity in discussions with me, and having my contact details.
I am now in a position to retrieve the UPS at fairly short notice. I can drive down (takes about 6 hours, or a bit more with the trailer), potentially camp out overnight somewhere near Albury, and be at Kaitlers Rd at an early hour on a day that suits them, with all tooling, equipment, lighting, etc required to remove the UPS on my own.
If they continue to obstruct, once the building is emptied, the power will be completely shut off at the city supply. There goes any theoretical requirement for electrical tracing and tagging, etc.
The building will at some point no longer be under Benson Machine's control. Worst case I can negotiate access with whoever is next in charge of it. A demolition company perhaps?

More Travails and Delays

In my last contact with Mr Philips on 3rd Nov 2017, I'd informed him I would notify them when I was ready to come pick up the UPS once my car was repaired. And that this may be an extended delay. He made no complaint, leaving it at that.

The work on my car did not go well. After fixing the suspension problems myself, on having a rego check done it transpired that the engine also needed work. I'd known about it, but planned to recondition a spare identical class engine I have, and swap that in after the car was registered. Now that's not possible, this engine has to be fixed immediately.
I was quoted $2000 just to replace the clutch. Good grief. Not acceptable.

Asking around of friends, one suggested a mechanic he has had work done by in the past. I contacted that mechanic. He visited, seemed impressive in his knowledge and past experience with Subaru. He'd previously worked as a Subaru licenced servicer. He has an IR video camera, that showed up a curious localized overheating problem of the RH side of the engine. I'd known it was overheating, but not realised it was so localised. He suggested that if replacing the clutch, it would be best to do a complete engine recondition at the same time.
I agreed, it would. Except I'd been hoping to do that myself (cheaply), on the other engine. But am in this urgent re-registration bind, oh well. He quoted $3000 to do the clutch plus a complete recondition. Including new rings, all crankshaft bearings, but no bore regrinds.

I thought that was a lot more reasonable than $2000 just for the clutch. Agreed to it, and paid $1800 deposit. (Actually not my money.)

The car got taken away on an all-up truck on 20171122. I expected to see it back in 2 or 3 weeks.

Ha ha. It became one of the worst f*ckups I've ever seen. Many unbelievable dramas. I'm not going into them here; there will be a separate writeup with all the details. Part of it was the mechanic collapsing around Christmas from high blood pressure and being in hospital for a while. He says. Later on, it became clear nothing he says can be trusted, so whether he was actually ill or not, I don't know. The upshot was, he got an extra $700 on top of the $3000, and the car didn't come back till 20180227 — 27th Feb 2018. Around three months since he began. Annnnd... there are reasons to suspect it hasn't actually had new rings or crankshaft bearings. Many defects in his work, and multiple solidly proven lies from him.

Grrr... I'm still looking into legal options about this.
Some more time passed, dealing with the problems, doing registration, wheel alignment, etc. By 20180302 that was done. The trailer was also an unexpected pain, since it turns out it was manufactured a long time ago and didn't have a compliance number stamp. By 20180315 this was all sorted out too. Finally, I can go to Albury to pick up the UPS any time.

Resuming Recovery Attempts

As you can imagine, I don't wish to have any further contact with Mr Paul Philips.
Another contact number I had was Chris Lloyd 0414 973 797. I knew Chris was actually based at the factory in Albury, and all the guys I'd met there seemed sensible, helpful people. So on 20180316 I called him. I was hoping I could bypass the obstruction, and deal directly with common sense onsite in Albury.

No such luck. I get the impression Chris is in fact a pleasant practical guy, and embarrassed to have to support such rubbish, but... Paul Philips is his boss. Says I'd have to speak with Paul.
Chris tried to tell me (in the manner of someone repeating what they've been told to say) that "It's hard to trace the cables back through the factory to the main distribution."

Good grief. This is the UPS for the main offices net server room. The server room visible through the open door seen in the Pickles auction photo. Other side of a wall. All the cables but the one supply cable will go through the wall to that room. One supply cable will come from the distribution center, and Benson staff will know perfectly well where that goes, from which breaker. Also it's already off, and Benson had to have locked it out of service already, to safely remove the UPS batteries.

One small good detail — he says the UPS is still there, and they'll take about another month to complete shipping of the factory machines.

You know, I gather this company Benson Machines has been involved with maintaining the Lavington factory for a long time. This makes me think that I know why the place was not economically viable. Apparently the car manufacturing plants shut down, so the gearbox factory lost its market. But if their gearboxes were overpriced, that would have contributed to the collapse. And if Benson, with rapacious attitudes like Paul Philips' had much to do with the operation, I would expect the place to be absolutely hopelesss.
Remember I noticed that the huge factory, with seeminly endless rows and isles of machines, had no grid references marked on the roadways? And the floor surfaces were glass-smooth slippery hard paint? That is exactly the kind of nonsense I'd expect to find in a place with management like Mr Philips.

So many Australian manufacturing jobs lost.
Such unproductive pig-headed greedy attitudes couldn't have had anything to do with that, right?

Site Details

In my last correspondence to Paul Philips I'd attached this aerial shot of the site, showing access to the office area.

There's at least one door to outside, on the wall indicated by the green oval.
He did not reply. Perhaps because he could not see any way to maintain his demands, now I've made it clear why his claims of difficulty and need for multiple people, all with workers compo insurance just to move it, are rubbish.

But there's an even better access route. Here's a section of the building layout plan handed out to everyone at the auction inspection. My annotations in green.

Note the plan actually says "UPS room" and "Server room" correctly where they are. Though it does not show the internal partitions in that long space.

The doorway at the end of that corridor is here:

Right off the main entrance drive from Kaitlers Rd. It could not be easier.

Ah the suspense. Can Mr Philips be persuaded to honor the auction sale (lack of) conditions, or not?
Stay tuned...

Later...

Success!
Thanks to some very helpfull assistance from management at both Pickles Auctions, and Tiger Assets Group, Benson dropped their requirement for extra payment. On my side, I found a cheap provider of personal accidental injury insurance, and took out a policy. And ended up picking up the UPS with no trouble.

Though it was still a bit of an adventure. See subsequent articles.

This document online: http://everist.org/NobLog/20180317_ups_drama.htm
Discussion: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/having-some-trouble-retrieving-my-property-request-for-comments/

	201710111 (11th Oct 2017), early in the day. I phoned Pickles before setting up my bidding account, to ask these questions about the necessary deposit and payment deadlines (for the CNC lathes.) Mentioned to show I was doing whatever pre-auction diligence seemed necessary.
	1:59pm How the UPS auction item web page looks after I bid, and the auction reached the finish time. For the next few minutes, someone else may still outbid me. So it's 'Pending'.
	2:50pm Notification via email that Pickles knows I bid on the item.
	3pm A few minutes after that, my bids status page says I won it. No one else bid. But it's still not final, since I haven't been charged the sale price yet.
	3:15pm The item page, telling me I've definitely won the item.
	3:20pm Having a look at my bank account. So far it only shows the token $1 charge Pickles initially makes to verify your account details are valid, when you sign up. They later reverse this charge.
	5:50pm An html email from Pickles with an attached PDF of an invoice for my purchase.
	The invoice with the above email. I owe them $1.14 ($1 bid plus their processing fee.)
	5:51pm Shortly after, they've successfully debited my account, now sending a tax invoice as attached PDF stating the outstanding amount I owe them is zero.
	The tax invoice, stating I owe $0. I now own the UPS outright.
	Another tax invoice a while later, for a different small item I also won for $1. A vibrating test tube stirrer. I was browsing through the other auctions and thought it was interesting. Had seen one of these in use during my recent trip to Melbourne.
	6pm My online bank statement now showing all three charges from Pickles. Two won items plus the original token $1 debit.
	Checking much later, the $1 test debit has been reversed. I'd put $1200 into the account, to cover potentially winning a CNC lathe bid. On winning, Pickles immediately take a percentage deposit from your account. A percentage of the bid plus Benson's $2200 'removal fee'. The full amount has to be paid within 24 hours.